Come on, give me your opinion.....

[LDunlop76]

Bill, the old bristles weren't rising - sorry if it came across that way. I was just raising the issue of what the opinion is of us abroad.

Someone at work told me about the TV programme about the nasty antics of the UK servicemen on Cyprus - horrifying stuff.

[William R]

Now Linda, Could we be bristley with one another? You know that daren`t upset you, or herself would have my guts for garters. I`ve told Martin I`m off the net for a few days from this weekend. but I`ll be watching your postings. from over the Pennines. William R.

[noel]

I feel very angry if I'm associated with these youths , I have found nothing but friendship from the French and Greek people I meet on my holidays. Likewise the behaviour of the Brits I also found impeccable. But there again we are of a certain age and went to enjoy the place, not get bladdered and laid every night. Maybe I'm getting old.

[LDunlop76]

We too go abroad to enjoy the local life, scenery etc., etc. and have always been treated well, though we have sat through an evening of French entertainment on one campsite where the comedian poked fun at "les Anglais" all through his set, thinking we "Rosbifs" wouldn't understand him. Hrrrumph! I could take it in good part, except when the punchline of one his "jokes" involved an English family driving off a cliff, which everyone thought was hilarious.... except for the French-speaking English in his audience.

But even when I was in Spain at age 18, none of my party went to get bladdered and laid. We had a few drinks and went home to bed! We were all about to go off to university and were way too sensible to risk any drunken accidents or unwanted pregnancies, STD's, blah, blah!

It isn't just the British youth though. The campsite we were on last year 'enjoyed' (huh!) the presence of a Dutch youth who semed to act as a magnet for other teenagers. He collected a gang around him and tended to monopolise the pool and wander round the camp about midnight, making a racket. However a run in with a few British dads took the wind out of his sails! He was out on the lake on a flippin' pedalo after midnight and got a real tongue-lashing from campers on the shore. Wasn't so cocky after that! []

[Caroline]

'These Weapons of Mass Destruction Cannot Be Displayed'
Take a look at:
http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

[Bill Rigby]

This topic seem rather redundant insofar as few people post, but then I have noticed a nucleus of regular posters with little input from most 'members'.
I am quite suprised at the perception that Brits think themselves 'disliked' these days, whereas, of course, no one really cares. Britain is not what itwas and memories are short, therefore to imagine "we are not liked" smacks of a degree of unmerited self-importance. The US media and consequently many of the more credulous, un-traveled US citizens also have the belief that not being 'liked' is some kind of badge of honor! In fact, Americans are rather more liked universally than any other nationality in my experience. I have had people come up to me in various countries to strike up a conversation when they discover I am an American; always they tell me how much they like Americans and the US! Indeed, last year in France, we were twice invited into peoples' homes and offered hospitality and conversation. One was also to show us the view from the front terrace!
The current spate of incomprehension, rather than dislike, is due to the unilateralist behavior and arrogant attitudes of the bozo we have as president and his Administration. The country is at its lowest ebb in generations and instead of being perceived as a benefactor who often does the wrong things for the right reasons, no one can find any merit in what is happening to the nation, both domestically and overseas. Iraq was a trumped up excuse to attack another nation and has little, if any, precedent in modern times; we are reverting to the 19th C. with 21st C. technology and the result will be disastrous!
As for Blair, if anyone thinks he gets kudos here from other than media whores, they are living a dream. As Rumsfeld bluntly stated before the war was launched, even if the US had no allies it would attack Iraq anyway and he cared not a whit if the UK was in or out. The speech made by Blair in the Congress was worthy of a lapdog; it took no note of the idiotic foreign policy based on ignorance and cupidity that kept the US in Vietnam until it was forced to leave at the cost of a million plus Vietnamian lives, not to mention 50k plus US lives.
The postwar Iraq situation is following the Afghanistan one; disaster! The planning for after conflict has been zilch and we see the results; now both the US and the UK want the much despised UN to help! Germany has already said no and Japan has said it would send, perhaps, an unarmed force to help with adminstration. Pakistan has clearly refused and all this is a good indication of how much most peoples of the world view US/UK aggressive war.
Indeed, Saddam was a vile dictator, but we have supported dictators just as vile and continue to do so. "Vileness" of a ruler is no excuse to intervene in the affairs of a soveriegn state and, indeed, is a criminal act of war per the UN Charter. Using the excuse that a relatively small state with 20 million population, bombed and under international sanctions for 11 years, its every move surveyed by satellite and electronic eavesdropping, represents a 'security' threat to the US is a joke if it were not tragic.
As someone has written in this section, we are indeed more in danger now from acts of terrorism than we were before and Bush has made it so.

[noel]

With a little help from Tony Blair Bill, who I think is secretly wishing he had never got involved. Having said that when you hear of the "alleged" attrocities the 2 sons performed on love rivals, throwing them to the lions and sawing them in 2 vertically while fully conscious, I try to draw some comfort that at least they have been eliminated. Small comfort however to those innocents and their families on both sides who have lost their lives. As someone I forget who said , we have helped create 100 Bin Ladens.

[Bill Rigby]

Noel, It is a commonplace that those you wish to destroy, you first demonize. I recall when Saddam went into Kuwait after asking the US Ambassador virtually if he could (She said the US would look upon it as an 'internal matter'!). Withing a few days, we saw pictures of veiled women recounting how Iraqis had torn babies from incubators, violtaed wholesale every female avaialable and a host of other such tales. We know now these were manipulations of the private PR firm hired by the Pentagon to come up with propaganda ploys.
What is never, or rarely, mentioned is that Iraq had a health service second to none in the Middle East, a social security program equally unprecedented for a Middle Eastern nation and welfare of the poor quite remarkable. In addition, Saddam sought to modernize the country in many ways (a friend of mine worked for 7 years in Iraq for a company setting up manufacturaing facilkities for home entertainment products).
Blood thirsty tales that are patently intended to horrify the credulous simply do not wash with me. Sorry. If you read between the lines you will see that Saddam was pretty much adulated by a very large segment of the population, just as Hitler was by the vast majority of Germans. For instance, I read today that the 'luxury' home subjected to an attack worthy of attempting to overcome a major fortess (!) where the sons were holed up is being totally razed to the ground on the grounds, stated by the officer in command, "We don't want it to become a shrine". What does that tell you?

[noel]

And yet Bill a friend of mine, an Iraqi refugee who works for Farrell in Rochdale has had to send his sister in Iraq money to subsidise her meager pittence as a school teacher for over 15 years. She simply wasn't earning enough to make ends meet. He had fled Iraq because of threats to him because of his political beliefs. He hadn't seen his sister or parents who still live in Iraq for 17 years and feared he would be killed if he tried to enter Iraq. Sadiq never spoke about how he was treated in Iraq, maybe inbuilt fear prevented him . I understand what you are saying about how stories are concocted. I never believed war was the right course of action. Most UK residents now belieeve they were lied to about the reasons for war. Going back to your initial points I agree also we are not the most hated people in the world. We may think we are because of our natural modesty. i'm off to Crete is just over 2 weeks, there is a band of men there who dress in black and have deep memories of the last world war. I believethey are known as Partisans . I strongly advise any Germans to keep clear.
It's too late now, we're stuck with the after effects Thanks a load Mr. Bush. Who next?

[rocketmanjohn]

If September 11th had'nt happened, then there would'nt have been an Afghanistan or probably an Iraq problem. If there wern't any terrorist attacks by Middle Eastern fanatics then none of this mess would have happened. The West would have continued to turn a blind eye to the genocide that was happening, would this have been right also?
John