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There are some interesting perspectives here.
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"its the rich what gets the fun, but the poor what gets the blame".
What has always puzzled me, especially were football is concerned, is that these "common yobs" seem to have very deep pockets. They fly all over the world to have their bit of fun. I don't really think the common working class man (or woman) would have the means to do this.
The green riots that have occoured in recent years are another puzzle. The so called peace hippies wouldn't have the kind of money that you would need to go flitting around the world, yet there they are on our television screens, dressed in rags and looking as if they haven't got two euros to rub together.
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I think the increased affluence of modern teenagers had led to increased alcohol consumption and I reckon this is what fuels a lot of the trouble they get into.
and drugs! Hayely and I were sat on a bench by the sea in Broadstairs a couple of weeks ago. Behind the wooden partition that we were sat by, there were about four teenagers no older than about 15. I heard one of them mention that he had "skunk" and then I saw them huddled in a group trying to light up.
Drugs are more accessible than ever before now that prices have dropped and there is always a queue of youngsters ready to try them out.
Martin ~
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The strange fact is 'prowess' in matters alcoholic is regarded as a cultural achievement in Britain. I mentioned affluence as a factor in what seems to be more widespread hooliganism and in that respect we agree, LDunlop. The emptiness of a culture is expressed when affluence is simply used to dull the senses, whether alcohol or video games.
As for foreigners posing as Brits, one has to ask why on earth would any foreigner want to do that? I determined 30 years ago that there is, as they say, no percentage in being British. The Germans have their own brand of slobs, the Dutch also it appears; Latin countries (meaning the source of the language) in western Europe are not beset by this nonsense, not to say they do not have their own brand of mayhem perpetrated by ill-mannered youths. However, if we take France as an example, some may recall the wave of pick-pocketing and harassment by 'Gypsies' in Paris and other French cities a few years ago. The situation was so notorious that a news program here featured a segment about it. Within a few months, the problem was resolved in the following manner; the cops picked up the 'gypsies', took them in, beat the hell out of them, and over time collected busloads to ship to where the 'gypsies' came from. The word went out, "don't go to France!"
There is an excellent account of soccer violence written by Bill Buford, "Among the Thugs: The experience and the seduction of crowd violence". Some of the book is truly horrifying and based upopn personal observation. I recall at one point he writes that he is ashamed at living in England...
BillR
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Rigby
However, if we take France as an example, some may recall the wave of pick-pocketing and harassment by 'Gypsies' in Paris and other French cities a few years ago. The situation was so notorious that a news program here featured a segment about it. Within a few months, the problem was resolved in the following manner; the cops picked up the 'gypsies', took them in, beat the hell out of them, and over time collected busloads to ship to where the 'gypsies' came from. The word went out, "don't go to France!"
The clear up didn't last long, Bill. We were in Paris in 2001 and the guy who picked us up from the airport warned us about an influx of thieves from former Eastern bloc countries who were targetting people in the main tourist locations - Eiffel Tower etc.. The Metro were constantly broadcasting warnings over the public address system to be aware of pickpockets. On our return to the airport at the end of our break we used a minibus service and met a couple who'd been robbed on the Metro only that morning - 2 girls working in tandem, one to push a person as they board a train, the other to pick his pockets as he stumbles, both then leap off the train as it pulls away and the victim only realises he's been robbed when it's too late. The couple said the Paris police had told them gangs of girls from Romania and former Soviet countries are using these tactics all over Paris.I think it's the same in all cities - the thieves and the litter are the same - as fast as you clear them up, more appear [V]
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Interesting post, LD, thanks. I was not aware of a recent influx; as I wrote, I was recalling 'a few years ago'. I know the problem had gone when I lived in Paris from 1986 to 1993 and, due to a business arrangement on extended stays, until 1996.
Maybe the current mayor will get the cops to act tough again!
I had my pocket picked in Rome. The two teenage girls who blocked our way so the 'active' could work I grabbed, since I felt my wallet go from my pocket. I held on to them, but of course, the actual thief had long gone in the crowd. The girls immediately began to show they had no wallet by undressing! In any other situation, I would have been interested since they were pretty nubile creatures, but I also realized it was a ploy to embarrass with lots of people lokking on. I lost quite abit of cash, but they also charged my credit cards with silverware to the tune of $6,000! Of course, I had called Mastercard as sooin as I could, but too late! Fortunately, as you know, the charge cannot be maintained, since the fault is placed on the seller to properly verify the ID of the user of the card. It was still a rotten event and spoiled what had been a great vacation.
BillR
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Rigby
I had my pocket picked in Rome. ........It was still a rotten event and spoiled what had been a great vacation.
Awww, what a shame, Bill R. Events like these really do ruin a holiday. The couple we met in Paris had had all their cash taken on their last morning and had been left with nothing to buy lunch or pay their fare back to the airport. Luckily the wife had a credit card on her with which they had been able to withdraw enough cash to finance their last few hours in Paris. One wonders how a lone traveller whose only credit card has been pinched would fare?These girls are really slick in their operations. What a pity they can't put the same level of effort into a legitimate form of income generation, but I suppose there's not a lot of jobs open to presumably illegal immigrants.Having been forewarned in Paris, we split our money between us and then split it between various pockets and sections of bumbags, so that if we were pickpocketed, at least it was unlikely we'd be totally wiped out. We also avoided speaking to each other on the Metro so as not to mark ourselves out as tourists and we kept away from the major tourist sites. But really one shouldn't have to curtail one's activities for fear of crime - having to be extra-vigilant does spoil one's break.But, as I said before, it's the same in any big city. I keep an extra hold on my bag even in Manchester and felt I had to be very careful when in London a couple of months ago - esp around Euston, which was packed out. However, it's nothing new - London was reknowned in Tudor times for the skill of the "cut-purses" lurking on the streets!
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When I was in Paris last year for a 2 night stay, we went on the underground, on the way out of the station the turnstile got stuck & a man behind me was trying to push me through, when i turned round to look at him, he had his hand in my bag flap, luckily the compartments of the bag all had zips. I then realised he was with another person who had deliberately messed with the turnstile, before i had chance to tell my husband & daughter they both fled.
Eileen
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quote:
Originally posted by LDunlop76
an influx of thieves from former Eastern bloc countries who were targetting people in the main tourist locations2 girls working in tandem. the Paris police had told them gangs of girls from Romania and former Soviet countries are using these tactics all over Paris.
I've seen this in a pub in London, two foreign girls came and sat down in the area we were in, they fiddled about with their coats and bags for a few minutes then got up and left. A few minutes later, one of our friends noticed that her bag had been stolen. It was all on cctv but I don't think they have been caught yet.
Martin ~
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Going back to the alcohol thing...it's fuelled by the fact that one can buy it almost anywhere, now.When I was growing up, you could just buy booze from an off-license, or the little 'Out Sales' hatch of a pub . There was one shop on Towngate with a severe-but-kindly elderly lady behind the counter, you'd get away with nothing!I was proud to tell her ' Eighteen today!' when she asked me on my birthday, buying beer to take back to school and open on the Physics Lab drawer handles!
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin
I've seen this in a pub in London, two foreign girls came and sat down in the area we were in, they fiddled about with their coats and bags for a few minutes then got up and left. A few minutes later, one of our friends noticed that her bag had been stolen. It was all on cctv but I don't think they have been caught yet.
I remember this incident being mentioned at the time on Hayley's forum. Just shows you really have to be security conscious when you're out and about. [V] A friend and colleague who works nearer to Liverpool was telling me about how her younger co-workers cope on nights out in that city. Aware that they may get too tipsy to keep a close eye on their stuff all evening, they just carry a tiny bag and put only lipstick and a hanky into it, then keep a credit card tucked into the side of their bras. Rather than pay for each round of drinks as they order it, they run up a tab in each pub or club they visit and take it in turns to pay for it on credit when they leave. I wonder how long before thieves get wise to this ploy and start groping women's boobs to get at their dosh! [:0]
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Just spent a lovely visit to Carlisle-wandering round castle,cathedral and admiring architecture and history generally .The hanging baskets and flower displays were magnificent.Very peaceful and quiet until about 9 PM when the night life began.Young people out in droves to while the night away -Yates Wine Lodge and Pubs including The Griffin alive and hopping.
Quite a revelation to me to see the transformation.
LG
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