Come on, give me your opinion.....

[David]

Forget that this is the Leyland Talk page, I need to know, and this is the most read page.....who do you think, with the world almost at war, and the British backing the USA to the hilt (government at least)....Are the USA and Britain the two most hated countries on the planet right now ? And if not, in your opininon, who is ???

[noel]

Good topic, I think we probably are, though I think the USA accepts for some time that it has been the most hated. Many American friends I have have stated that to me time and again. Quite why Blair should drag we Brits into the firing line to go along with young gung-ho Bush is quite beyond me, if it'd had been The Iron Lady I'm sure she would have gone along with Bush whilst Neil Kinnock would have been dead against.

[LDunlop76]

quote:

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Originally posted by David
Are the USA and Britain the two most hated countries on the planet right now ?

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Yeah, I think we probably are. I think the difference is that in Britain we've probably known for a long while that we're not liked - subjugating a quarter of the globe to create an empire doesn't tend to inspire too many friendly thoughts - however, I reckon it only hit home for a lot of Americans how disliked the US is after 9/11. And the US govt isn't doing much to make friends when it starts saying nasty things and threatening import sanctions on countries who dare to hold opposing opinions on blasting Saddam right now. (France & Germany)I dread to think what will happen within world politics if the Bush-Blair coalition attack Iraq without a 2nd UN resolution...... []

[rocketmanjohn]

Sanctions havent worked for the last 12 years. Saddam Hussain still terrorises his own people and obviously supports terrorism. Will it take a germ laden rocket on Israel to convince the rest of the world that this man cannot be trusted, ever? The parallels with 1937 are scary, how many millions died to stop that one. I am neither pro Arab nor pro Israeli, but I am pro peace, sounds crazy, but we are'nt going to get any 'til this regime is taken out, one way or another.
John

[Guest 01]

The parallels with pre WW11 are indeed food for thought-history repeating etc etc.
I'm old enought to remember the triumphant return from Europe with the flimsy piece of paper-Peace in Our Time.Only gave the enemy time to consolidate and prolong the inevitable conflict.
Today in NZ is a day of protests by groups against any military moves by the USA and other supporting nations.
It's a hard call but everyone these days seems to hate and want to shoot the policeman and the one who stands up to be counted whatever the issue.
Australia had a wake up call in Bali and look at the arrows fired at John Howard for his stance.
Tall poppies all over again.
Not saying I think there should not be every effort made to solve the problem without military might being involved.
But patience is wearing thin and it may be a case of repeating the lessons of the past if there is not some sort of resolution without the complete disintegration of the United Nations.
Then Saddam will have won by default.
It seems to me a pity that Bush conveys such a go and get em attitude therefore destroying a support base.Am rather surprised at the compliance by Blair-can't help thinking they know a lot more than the hoi polloi.
That's my twopennyworth.

[noel]

We had a massive demonstration in London today against any war. Over 1,000,000 people took part. I wish I could have made it, I have never felt so strongly anti-war before. What Sadam does to his own people is nothing to do with us. I would hate to think that another country decided to invade ours because of the high taxes our government has burdened us with. Most of the terrorists arrested in England recently are from Algeria. Why are we not making war with Algeria ? Why Iraq? The government will never win the public over unless they come up with some sound reasons .

[rocketmanjohn]

[ What Sadam does to his own people is nothing to do with us.

Noel, surely by your statement you are condoning mass murder. If we know what is going on, then surely we have a responsibility to stop it. How many more Kurds will be slaughtered if we stand back and do nothing.
As I said before, there are many parallels here. Millions of Jews died because too many nations said it was no business of theirs.
John

[LDunlop76]

quote:

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Originally posted by rocketmanjohn
Noel, surely by your statement you are condoning mass murder. If we know what is going on, then surely we have a responsibility to stop it. John

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I take your point, John, but thousands of Iraqis have died as a result of the sanctions imposed 12 years ago. (Shortage of medicines etc.) So where does that place us? We are responsible for some of the suffering in Iraq.

[noel]

John it's a really complex issue this, far too great for simple me to comprehend, however as regards "mass murder" what would the effect of the USA invading Iraq and killing many innocents in their attempts to oust Sadam? I have a friend whose sister lives in Iraq, she is a school teacher and so badly paid my friend has to send her money to help her eek out a living. Does she deserve to be bombed ?
I wish there were a simple answer to getting rid of this tyrant maybe Bush snr. regrets never doing it 12 years ago when all the conditions were right.
Why pick on Iraq? Why not Zimbabwe, China? There is no logical reason being offered to me why it has to be Iraq.

[Martin]

This is a tough one to call. I don't know what we should do as I don't have all the facts. I think that Blair honestly believes that he is doing what is best given the options that he does have. Do nothing and wait for Saddam to drop a chemical bomb on someone, or go to war now and put an end to his reign. How quickly people forget the past. How many remember the thousands of Iranians that were gassed to death by Saddam? Or the other races that have come under attack by him? It's not what he does in his own country that has got us this far, it is what he has done to other countries and what he may do given enough time.

I am not pro war or against it, I just don't know enough to make that decision. If I was in charge, I would send out groups of deligates to talk to all the countries of the middle east, I would find out exactly why they are so angry with the west and what we could do to change all that. The only way to have long lasting peace is to talk and more importantly, listen.